1:40pm. Ray, Jessica, George, Marc, Chris are online.

Ray said:

Hi, everyone

Jessica said:

We should have asynchronous class at the very beginning.

I am so excited!!

 Viola joined the discussion 

Ray said:

Welcome, viola!

In the meantime let's discuss your responses to Macbeth yesterday.

George said:

I like the play a lot.

Ray said:

What did you think of the performance and its many symbols?

George said:

Including the setting, performance, and also the props.

Marc said:

Hmm, I like nothing but the tricks of symbols performing out there on stage.

Chris said:

I particularly love the three witches.

Ray said:

For example, what did you think of the witches and their masks?

Ray said:

Why, Chris?  Say more?

Chris said:

It’s good to they have two faces.

Chris said:

And I haven't imagined such a "active" witch with bright color.

Marc said:

In terms of speaking through the dead face, I love that way that the masks are used for significant meanings.

George said:

The director said yesterday in the panel after the performance, that he intentionally to make those witches into "incomplete" women.

Ray said:

(By the way, I view this chatroom as YOUR chatroom, it is a place where you can talk, ask questions, attempt to answer them, etc.  I am here to provide whatever help I can, but this is mostly your chance to shine.  And don't make jokes about my SHINING head…)

Ray said:

Yes, the dead facemasks were interesting---and MALE.

Chris said:

Hum . . . incomplete women

Ray said:

Their real faces and behavior seems child-like to me

Ray said:

Why incomplete?

Marc said:

The women only can express themselves through masks.

Chris said:

I think that (lady) Macbeth is also incomplete.

George said:

Because those witches are women who couldn't bear or give birth, thus they are incomplete.

Chris said:

They are haunted by the existence of witches.

George said:

They are unable to perform the role as a mother.

Ray said:

Unlike lady Macbeth who gave birth to Macbeth under her large stilts.

Chris said:

Yes, it seems that Macbeth always hid under Lady Mac.

Marc said:

Agree.

Ray said:

(Jessica, I am sorry that you weren't able to come yesterday!)

George said:

Thus, in the very beginning of the play, the witches were surrounding the cradle, and they seemed to tease the child in the cradle.

Ray said:

(And you too, Viola.)

Ray said:

The stilts that Macbeth and Lady Macbeth use were also very symbolic, though of course not part of our text

Ray said:

Quite consistent though with the text's emphasis on clothes and "borrowed robes"

Ray said:

(Viola and Jessica, I can certainly understand your absence.)

Marc said:

I love how the titles are used to show the ups and downs of the power issues.

Jessica said:

Do they speak in Taiwanese?

Ray said:

Yes, Marc, and the "taking" of power

Ray said:

Yes, Jessica

Chris said:

Yes, very hard to understand their way of speaking

George said:

Yes. But some of the actors' Taiwanese are not "smooth"...

Ray said:

The performance of the character Macbeth was not very satisfying for me: he seemed too wimpish, emotional, weak--at times only a caricature

George said:

Yet, in terms of poetic sense, I think Taiwanese is much better than Mandarin.

Ray said:

Why, George?

Marc said:

YEA! The direction the performers turn back and forth is symbolized for the antithesis.

George said:

Because both Taiwanese and Mandarin are tone languages, but Taiwanese has 7 tones, and Mandarin has only 5.

Ray said:

What did you guys think of the relationship between Macbeth and his wife?

George said:

Thus using Taiwanese is able to create more variations in hearing sense.

Chris said:

But their way of speaking Taiwanese… it's painful for me to figure out what they’re talking about.

Ray said:

I of course didn't understand what they were saying, but their actions onstage did not suggest much closeness

Chris said:

Their relationship is like mother and son

Chris said:

It’s like lady Mac always guiding Macbeth to do this and do that.

Marc said:

They act more like a pair of lord and subject.

Ray said:

Yes, Marc--and he seemed to want to return to the womb.

Chris said:

And Macbeth is hiding under lady Mac like a child.

Jessica said:

Womb is an image.

Marc said:

But he can't.

George said:

The tilts too.

Marc said:

Go back to seek comfort from his lost pre-oedipal desire.

Ray said:

Did Lady Macbeth say the "unsex me now" speech?

Jessica said:

A womb is a place where identity is first constructed.

Ray said:

Was she a failed surrogate mother?

George said:

Yes, she did.

Chris said:

I think she did when she hid herself beyond the veil and become larger and larger.

George said:

But in Taiwanese translation she said, "Take away my female generosity…" things like that.

Ray said:

Good, Jessica--thanks, George.  Did she say the lines about the sucking babe at her breast?

George said:

Yes... behind the veil.

Ray said:

Was she "generous" prior to that?

Chris said:

Yea, when she hid behind the veil.

Marc said:

Her vulnerability and incapability are shown to prove her failure toward the end of the play.

Ray said:

You guys, I think we should switch soon to MND (Midsummer Night's Dream).  Do you mind posting your responses to "Macbeth" on Engsite.

Ray said:

Those who have seen the play need to comment on the performance and those who stayed home please comment on the text.

Ray said:

Now, let's switch to MND

Jessica said:

I post my journal about MND as a metadrama.

Ray said:

Jessica, can you summarize your argument in the journal?

Chris said:

Good point, metadrama

        Kristine joined the discussion.

Ray said:

Kristine, hi and welcome

Ray said:

Jessica, can you say more about "the movement between illusion and reality [that] causes possibilities of fluid identities"?

Jessica said:

I think Shakespeare tries to make illusion and reality coexist on the stage.

Ray said:

Chris, you also have comments to add about dreams, reality, and metadrama

Jessica said:

The two-in-one identity of character expresses a kind of unstable identity

Chris said:

I think that Shakespeare present the essence of the play as kind of dream

Ray said:

Give examples, Jessica?  And explain their significance or at least raise questions about their value?

Marc said:

How the reality and illusion get fused in the end, Jessica?

Chris said:

That is, drama itself it's a dream . . . for the audience

Chris said:

How to fuse them . . .it's job of dramatist

Ray said:

Explain, Chris

Jessica said:

An actor plays Bottom and Ptramus at the some time

Chris said:

Well, drama in some degrees it is a way to present another world, either to respond to the reality or escape from reality

Jessica said:

The relationship between the actor and the role he plays is like a signifier and a signified.

Ray said:

Jessica, in some productions, the same actor who plays Thesius also plays Oberon, and the same actress who plays Hippolyta can also play Titania.

Jessica said:

We identify Bottom as Pyramus who is performed by Bottom. 

Jessica said:

Gee, how can the directors confuse the audience in this way?

Jessica said:

See, you confuse too.

Ray said:

So there are many kinds of doubling in the play.

Marc said:

Agree

Ray said:

Besides me, Jessica, can you give examples of other confusions about identity created in the play or the play within the play?

Ray said:

Marc, say more than one or two words in your comments!

Ray said:

Also, George, you've been quiet so far about MND

Ray said:

You too Kristine.

George said:

Constructing...

Kristine said:

Me, too.

Ray said:

Jessica, how is the audience confused?

Marc said:

What Oberon directs in the forest play receives the consent from Theseus in the end. It seems the two of one operating within the play and within the play within the play.

Marc said:

Three witches

Jessica said:

Let me answer your second question first and I'll turn back to the first.

George said:

I was thinking the play within play structure...

Jessica said:

The characters like Bottom, Flute, Snug and so on play two roles on stage and the audience has to re-identify the character with another character

Jessica said:

That is a kind of confusion to audience, I think.

Viola said:

I'm confused, Jessica.  What do you mean signifier and signified? You mean a person is a signified and the role his play is a signifier. Can the person be a signifier because I think his identity is fluid.

Ray said:

Kristine, you can also add comments about your journal topic about the play within the play.

Jessica said:

Yes, Viola. For instance, Bottom is a signifier and the role he plays is a signified.

Kristine said:

But I think that the tradesmen keep reminding the audience the distinction between the reality and the drama, and the audience is always aware of that. 

George said:

Take Puck's final epilogue into consideration, the whole play within play structure of MND is obviously conducted by Oberon.

Kristine said:

Why? Can you explain more?

Marc said:

Also referring to Shakespeare himself.

Jessica said:

When the audience is looking at Bottom in a play within a play, the audience has to switch the character Bottom to Pyramus.

George said:

The fairies in MND play triple roles. They first are the actors (to the real audience), the director (Oberon in conducting the relationship between Helena and Demetruis), and also the audience (for those fairies are also watching those human characters "perform" on the stage"

Jessica said:

Yes, a process of signification

George said:

Thus, echoing to what Jessica has previously mentioned, the identity of the character in MND is in fluidity.

George said:

Yet, in the process of signification, I think none of the character is able to completely shift into a new role.

Jessica said:

I am trying to find some examples from my Shakespeare babe book to talk about confusion of identity

Jessica said:

Maybe we can talk about Puck, who causes a series of confusion.

Chris said:

One of examples is in the end when the fairies come to human worlds to bless the marriage

Ray said:

This makes me think of medieval drama, which was often performed by and for a local community

Ray said:

with local community members playing the roles

Chris said:

That blur the line of reality and fairyland

Ray said:

So they would be recognizable by other members of the community/audience as both their "real" self and their performed role

Jessica said:

What do you mean the local community playing the roles? Play roles in MND?

Jessica said:

The community knows who is who and who is playing whom.

Ray said:

No, Jessica, I am talking about medieval plays

Ray said:

But this former historical theatre is also echoed in MND

George said:

I don't quite get what you mean, Ray?

Ray said:

You guys have been talking about the characters playing double roles; George you suggest that the fairies are even playing three roles

George said:

Yeap.

Ray said:

I am suggesting that this doubleness has historical precedences

George said:

Oh.

Ray said:

And the doubleness presented in medieval performances also serves to blur the distinction between reality and imagination

Jessica said:

The community takes part in a medieval play? And they know who is who (their real selves) and who is playing who (their performing selves) am I right?

Ray said:

Yes, Jessica, that is exactly right

Ray said:

Chris, this also relates to your argument.  And to yours, Marc.

Ray said:

Viola and Kristine, you do not have to be so silent

Marc said:

So, this parallels to MND.

Ray said:

Yup, and it relates to the issues of doubleness, identity, reality, and imagination that we've been discussing

Viola said:

I'm thinking about the doubleness of Puck.  I think he plays a role of director when I read his speech to ask applause.

George said:

But,Viola, usually it is the "actor" who is doing the epilogue.

George said:

And in terms of power relation, I think it is Oberon who is directing the whole "play".

Jessica said:

Yea.

George said:

This reminds me that "human beings are only god's sports".

Jessica said:

Oberon's power is threatened by a boy.

Kristine said:

I don't think so. Oberon is not omniscient. He makes mistakes, too.

Ray said:

Yup

George said:

You mean the Indian Boy?

Jessica said:

A boy who gets Titania's attention.

Jessica said:

Yup.

Chris said:

I think the threat toward Oberon comes form that a boy will be educated by women instead of being educating by male society

Ray said:

Why is that threatening for him?

Jessica said:

The confusion in this play is caused by Oberon's jealousy

Chris said:

Then the role of Titania will be like Q Elizabeth that controls male (the boy) from the beginning

Marc said:

That's about Titania's refusal against Oberon's power or "man's" power.

Chris said:

Therefore Oberon must resort the boy from the control of "woman"

Jessica said:

The control of Titania's sexuality

George said:

Or Titania's refusal is a direct impact to Oberon's power?

Marc said:

Yup, jess.

Chris said:

Titania's refusal partly due to that she wants to keep that boy because of his mother--female bond

Viola said:

I agree with Marc.  And I think there's some kind of counterbalance between Oberon and Titania.

Chris said:

I think Oberon wouldn't allow female bond to take charge of the boy's future.

Marc said:

But Titania's refusal gets to be tamed by Oberon's trick.

Jessica said:

I mean, for Oberon, Titania's sexuality must be control in order to restore his authority and patriarchal power.

Chris said:

Sure, so the play suggests that "women" have to be tamed and give up their right of control

Marc said:

Yup, jess.

Chris said:

So is the case of Hippolyta, the Q of Ama, isn't it?

Jessica said:

Do you think women are tamed and giving up their right, Chris?

Marc said:

Like how the wooing game of Theseus toward Titania goes from the beginning to the end.

Chris said:

The two Qs in the end restore their relationship with the two kings, but rather submissively

Marc said:

Women are fooled in the forest play as we see how Helena is fooled.

Jessica said:

Also men

Chris said:

However, the ones fooling other actors are male--Oberon and Puck

Jessica said:

The wood is a place of non-place, where identity can be confused and performed.

Chris said:

Even FAIRY QUEEN cannot avoid being fooled

Kristine said:

Do you think Puck is male?

Jessica said:

Good question, Kristine

Marc said:

Hermia, too. Yet, only with Oberon's tiny judgment can the two couples restore to what they were.

Ray said:

George and Viola, what do you think about these topics?

Chris said:

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I haven't though of that

Ray said:

You guys, let's meet here via MSN Messenger again during our class time this Friday.  After our first chat today, you should be familiar with this form of discussion and come to the chat on Friday prepared and with an agenda.  Also, please help notify those who aren't with us today to be on time this Friday.  On-line discussion counts for class and you should not skip it.

Marc said:

Though the men in the forest are fooled by the charms of love-juice, it is the women who remain sober have to deal with this absurdity.

Ray said:

Also, other materials will be uploaded and our class website will be updated.  Gretchen will notify you via email.  You need to check emails often and keep in touch.

Jessica said:

Yes, like Helena.

Ray said:

Time flies.  Let’s call it a chat.  See you next time.

End of discussion.

3:10pm, May 26, 2003