(Some sentences in the original records were lost accidentally. 
Anyone who has a copy to supplement, please contact me. Thanks!)

1:40pm, Ray, Christine, George, Marc, Jessica, and Carol were in the chatroom.

Ray said:
Hi, you guys. 
How are you today?

Chris joined the discussion.

Ray said:
Ok, we need to divide our time carefully so that you have a chance to respond to all of the materials.

George said:
I find one piece of the music Doris mentioned in her interview. 
(The music file that George share with us will available at EngSite.)

Viola joined the discussion.

Ray said:
Let's start with your response to Huini's interview.
Ok, the interview with Huini gives us a rare chance to think and talk about the play from another point of view: that of a composer. 

Jessica said:
I think Huini Cheung mention about her experience working with the director and her choice of different music to represent the different characters.

Ray said:
Yes, you're right.

Carol said:
I like the way she works with the literary texts....the analysis of forms, images...
It seems that for a composer images work more than words....it's magical that she can actually translate images into notes and music....

Marc said:
I only hear how she creates mood through her sub-consciousness.

Ray said:
Yes, she wanted certain sounds and types of music for each group of characters

Jessica said:
like pure and high sounds

Jessica said:
Also some midi sounds, right?

Ray said:
Right.

Jessica said:
I like she uses oboe to create a kind of atmosphere of elegant but suspension mood. 

Carol said:
And I think use music as a contrast to the context will also work well....the effect is more obvious....

Ray said:
What about the musical connection between Hippolyta and Titania that Huini described--what do you think about that from a textual point of view?

Jessica said:
Actually I don't quite understand this part, but I remember she mentions that she uses Hippolyta as a kind of connection to represent the daytime and night, am I right?

Carol said:
the connection is interesting since Titania suspects that Oberon flirts with Hippolyta...it seems there's a subtle relationship between these two leading couples...

Ray said:
Yes, and though they are different, Huini chooses to link them musically. Titani's music is a variation of Hippolyta's.

Jessica said:
And you asks her about " do Hippolyta and Titania share the same pattern of music?" But I am not sure about her answer to this question. Can you give us some Clues?

Ray said:
Yes, she responded that they do have similar music, that she wants them to be link, that both are women whose music subtly expresses some oppression.

Ray said:
But she wanted Titania's music to be higher, purer, and more "wild."

Jessica said:
Because Titania lives in the forest.

Marc said:
She's an Amazonian Queen.

Carol said:
well if Hernia/Helena can be seen as a doubling in this play then Titania/Hyppolyta can also be viewed in the similar position since they are overpowered by their leader-lovers...

George said:
I agree with you.

Christine said:
So it fit the image of the hostess of forest

Carol said:
well isn't it Hippolyta is the Amazon queen? She should be wild as well????

Carol said:
Or is it that she is conquered by the civilization force that Theseus presented so her barbaric power become weak?

Viola said:
Because Hippolyta now lives in a civilized city, her music will not be as wild as Titania.

Jessica said:
Another confusion: Huini mentions about the sensual music at the end of interview, how does she deal with this sensual music as a kind of irony? 

Chris said:
it's interesting to consider the text with musical viewpoint. I thought that music of Titania ought to be soft (consider her position in the play--victim, mother-figure for the boy and the beauty sleeping in the forest) 

Carol said:
ha but when Titania argues with Oberon she is a tough character as well!

Ray said:
Has Hippolyta been "tamed" by Oberon (to borrow the word from "Taming of the Shrew")?

Chris said:
indeed. . . . . to parallel the villainy deed of Oberon/Puck, maybe a little bit soft would be more suitable, personal opinion. But I never hear the music so i can't say much about one should be such and such . . . . 

George said:
Do you mean Tatiana, Ray? Or has Hippolyta been tamed by "Theseus"?

Jessica said:
Yes, that is my question too.

Ray said:
Oops, George, you're right: I meant Theseus!!

Carol said:
I don't really think so since the way Oberon "tamed" her is borrowing the unusual supernatural power--the herb--so when the effect is gone, when everything goes back to the normal track, the power relation is still struggling between Titania and Oberon... 

Marc said:
In Doris' clip, she suggests Hyppolyta is hard to be tamed for the lullaby doesn't in any way enter her dream.

Ray said:
The Queen of the Amazons has been conquered by Theseus, so Huini wanted her music for oboe to reflect subtly this oppression

George said:
I don't think Hippolyta is really "tamed" by Theseus..It's because while Theseus is boasting his victory over her, she silence reply seems to be very ambiguous..

Ray said:
Huini also talked about the mechanicals improvising music onstage, playing "percussion" instruments that are not really instruments, just banging on daily items. And when they perform, the offstage musicians do not join in. Can you relate this to our discussions of the text?

Jessica said:
percussion can create a sense of fighting and fast-moving.

Chris said:
Yes. it seems H being tamed by Th but Hippolyta shows disobedience or Q sometimes. e.g. she counters the Theseus' description of moon or she hints the "discord 

Carol said:
the improvising sounds for me are like the hounds from Hippolyta's homeland....that's something wild and natural, unlike the civilized and organized/or forced sounds in the Athen city...

Chris said:
she is talking about the sound of discord that reflects Huini' musical arrangement which the music not come from the regular band.

Carol said:
so maybe those "out of order" sounds imply the disturbing and uncontrollable evils/supernatural forces also working in the world of city/woods...

Ray said:
Let's move to Doris Chang's online materials: her paper about the lullaby, her two videos, and PowerPoint file. Why don't you throw out the questions and issues about these materials that interest you?

Jessica said:
Doris Chang also mentions about the function of Act two Scene Two where a lullaby is sung to Titania. We talked about this scene last time and what I learned from Cheung’s essay is that this lullaby actually functions as a kind of introduction to introduce the main characters for the audience. Secondly, this lullaby also implies Oberon’s revenge on Titania and foreshadows what will happen.

Carol said:
it seems that the lullaby is really crucial in the transition and spreading of this play...

George said:
I still feel kind of uncomfortable to her point...since in my acknowledgement, the Buddhism is rather different from what we have seen in MND.

Viola said:
lullaby manifests and highlights a quality of dream. all things in the play are nothing but dreams and illusions.

Jessica said:
Quotation from my journal: "It is interesting that Doris Chang mentions three composers, Benjamin Britten, Henry Purcell and Felix Mendelssohn, who use different kinds of music to interpret Shakespeare’s musical play."

Carol said:
I was enlightened that the lullaby is positioned between Athen/woods, between day/night, Human/Fairy world....

Jessica said:
Mendelssohn uses stringed instruments, like violin and cello, to create a kind of "lullabied" atmosphere and he uses "long sound" and "smooth sound" to emphasize the sense of hidden crisis; Britten uses more percussion than the other two to create a sense of fighting and quarreling.

Jessica said:
I agree with George.

Viola said:
But I'm not sure why she uses icons of Tang dynasty and of Buddhism

Ray said:
Good, George and Jessica. Can you say more? The rest of you--what in Doris's materials interest you?

Carol said:
well I kind of understand what George said....I think Doris Chang's emphasis seems on the dreamy/transient quality of this play and the possibility of transcending our obsession....but I think the play is more complex and can be discussed regarding to the power/gender relationship....

George said:
I can only find Mendelssohn's piece, but I couldn't find the lullaby..

Ray said:
we have online two video clips of the lullaby--showing two different traditions of interpreting/presenting the lullaby

Jessica said:
In Chang's essay, she suggests that the "love drops" can imply a means that change the power relation between Oberon and Titania. This point is quite new for me.

Carol said:
I think the animation one is stressing the contrast between the former dreamy, ideal fairy world and the later dark, mischievous intrusive power that Oberon brings....

Jessica said:
I think why Doris connects the play with Buddhist is because they both deal with the issue of illusion and passion of human beings.

Carol said:
though I like the real production more because the panic is on the way even when the fairies are chanting the lullaby...the danger is actually all over at any time....

George said:
I think the idea of that reality and illusion are mingled together can be found in both Buddhism and MND.

Christine said:
I quite agree that the love drops play an important role between Oberon and Titania

George said:
But I don't' think the idea of "self" is the same in these two.

Carol said:
but what the love drops present then?

Chris said:
I'm interested in Doris' Buddhist viewpoint toward the play though it seems too optimistic for she considers the illusionary dream waking up as a positive term, just like Buddhism teaches people to wake up in this illusionary world. 

Marc said:
the Icon Doris borrowed from the duen-huang paintings don't seem quite suitable with the fairy world, though the transcending spirits might be parallel. The Buddhist milieu essentially draws the huge contrast to the western fairies millieu. 

Chris said:
but I see the original text that the characters, waking or sleeping, cannot escape from the world's boundary

Carol said:
how many of you really saw Doris production during undergraduate years? I did!

George said:
In MND, the self or the "identity" is constructed externally..but in Buddhism, the self must be found inwardly...

Carol said:
I agree with Chris 

Chris said:
when they sleep, they fall victim into the magical world; when they wake, they must return to civilization--they symbol of order and human society 

Christine said:
the love drops changes other couple's love as well, it manipulate Titania's power over people

George said:
I don't' think in MND, the boundary between illusion and dream is clearly distinguished.

Jessica said:
Doris Chang argues that both in Tang Dynasty and in MND women have suffered from patriarchal oppression, which is similar to Huini's interpretation.

Viola said:
I think the icons she uses show some kind of fantasy. 

Carol said:
Right, the transcending quality is unstable and questionable in the text....

Jessica said:
To answer Viola's previous question: That's why Doris set this play in Tang Dynasty.

Carol said:
yeah I agree that the oppression in Tang towards the barbarian princess is similar...

George said:
Doris's argument on Tang women is rather weak. Or I should say, women for most of the time suffer from the patriarchal society.

Marc said:
I particularly like the part Doris quotes from the Buddhist sutra concerning the illusory dynamics flowing in human mind 

Ray said:
Doris also mentioned the racial issue in Tang dynasty. 

George said:
The reason why Doris chose Tang Dynasty is because, Buddhism reaches its peak in Tang Dynasty..

Carol said:
but George as I herd from the Chinese teacher, Tang is the dynasty that women are more liberated than the later ones...

George said:
Yeah, Carol, that's true...

Christine said:
but in Tang, women have certain freedom than those in the later dynasties

Jessica said:
Yes, the racial and sexual power struggle, which fits this play too. But my question is: doesn't it fit to any period in Chinese history, like Yuan Dynasty or others?

Carol said:
Yeah as we know Tang is the golden age of Chinese culture and empire.... many "barbarian" races are conquered...and the interracial marriages are common...

George said:
Then, Doris' argument on women suffering is "weak"?

Christine said:
could be

Carol said:
You mean that in fact any dynasty in Chinese history has the similar oppression?

Jessica said:
Maybe " weak" is too strong...Let's say " not fit your expectation," 

Chris said:
Hum, there is one sentence in Doris' director's note: "Her (Hippolyta) wills to fight were often overwhelmed by her passion for the handsome and charming Han conqueror (kind of Chinese imagination and colonization of the barbarian "other"). Hippolyta can well be associated with that barbarian princess to be conquered in this dream." 

Jessica said:
Yes, Carol,

George said:
I think beside the rise of Buddhism, Tang Dynasty can also be viewed as the "Chinese Renaissance", which is a parallel to Shakespeare's time.

Carol said:
Ha George I think this comparison is fair enough....

Ray said:
Good, can we now connect what you've been saying with our various views of the play text?

Chris said:
It quite . . . . . . simplifies the inner state of Hiopplyta (being aggressive but haunted by handsome Theseus? XD)

Ray said:
Also, what about Doris' mixing of Chinese and Taiwanese? (Also, one character wears a Japanese kimono.) In the production that Huini wrote the music for, the rustics performed in Taiwanese, while the other characters spoke Chinese.

Carol said:
Yeah I agree with you Chris....I don't like that analysis of Hippolyta's mentality...*-)

Carol said:
I think the mixture of languages are interesting because consider the characters in the play, they may actually speak different languages....

Jessica said:
can we say that this kind of "bilingual performance" is to show the conflicts between the two cultures, like there are two "cultures" in MND?

Viola said:
is it a kind of racial issues Doris wants to show? Also it is a distinction between urban and rural life. 

George said:
or "dialects" you mean, Carol?

Carol said:
Athen (upper class and lower class)--Amazon--the fairy language...

Ray said:
also consider the mechanicals as a lower social class

Jessica said:
so...there is a hierarchy in language? 

Carol said:
Right!

George said:
Language is a representation of social position..

Christine said:
dialects sometimes become minority

Jessica said:
I don't agree with this. A person who speaks Chinese is superior to the one speaks Taiwanese? that is a ideology fault. 

George said:
But in the original text, Shakespeare didn't make the characters speak in "dialect" as he did in The Wives of Windsor..

Jessica said:
again, I agree with you, George.

Chris said:
I didn't see the performance . . . . . can somebody who saw it talk about the situation of language use on the stage? I'm not quite sure what Doris means about adopting Chinese and Taiwanese.

Marc said:
I didn't , either

Carol said:
Right but that's strange...they should speak different languages....just like in Hollywood movies everyone speaks English as if it's the only language in the universe-) 

Jessica said:
So in any reinterpretation of the play, we can see the ideology of culture is shown, either eastern or western cultures...

Carol said:
I prefer the diversity, the showing of different voices, but I also dislike the prejudice....however it is a cultural phenomenon in the society...

Ray said:
Let me sum it up: in the production Huini worked with the play was performed in Mandarin and the mechanicals spoke Taiwanese. In Doris' production all the characters spoke English.

Ray said:
How does this prejudice/racial issue present in the text?

Christine said:
the play within a play was kind of laughingstock in the text for the nobility

George said:
I think in Huini's production, it fits the traditional stereo type of Taiwanese social structure...

Carol said:
George can you say more?

Jessica said:
for instance, the " noble" group speaks in verse but the mechanicals speak in blank verse, which is considered as lower class language.

Viola said:
alienation. like the Indian boy in the fairies and Hippolyta, the only one Amazon, among the Athens. 

Ray said:
And Hermia is described as being "Ethiopian."

George said:
That the upper class people speak the official language (or the proper social language), i.e. Mandarin. Both for the most of the working class, Taiwanese is the most frequent used dialect..

Ray said:
Thanks, Viola, your comment brought us back to the text. Can we say more?

Jessica said:
for instance, the " noble" group speaks in verse but the mechanicals speak in blank verse, which is considered as lower class language.

George said:
I agree with Jessica's point. Though Shakespeare didn't make the character speak in dialects, still in the form of language, the class boundary exists.

Carol said:
But this distinction is still simplified I think....

Carol said:
Right Viola how do you feel about the positions of these "aliens" in this play?

Jessica said:
I am thinking about the Indian boy. Can we say that Titania's interest in him is because of racial and sexual stereotype that a man is black ( though the boy is not really in black but darker) has sexual privilege.

Ray said:
Chris had earlier in our discussion today made comments about self and other.

(The following sentences in the original records were lost accidentally. Anyone who has a copy to supplement, please contact me. Thanks!)

Ray said:
On Friday, in class we'll orally evaluate the asynchronous unit, work out the plan for future discussion, and then move to "The Winter's Tale." Thank you for joining us. See you!

End of Discussion. June 2, 2003.